Entry: Something non-controversial (Yeah Right!) Wednesday, May 12, 2004



Disclaimer:  What follows is the beginning of my thought on this issue not the end.  If you become offended, fine.  Let us discuss.

Every morning I wake up and turn on National Public Radio (sometimes before I wake up) and get my morning dose of Iraq with yesterday's body count.  This has been the case since 'major combat operations' began last year.  Every morning I am reminded of what Jesus said, "To him who strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."  Violence breeds violence.

In thinking about this I have come to a sticking place in my own life.  The theorhetical situation, "someone breaks into your home and threatens to [insert violent verb here] you wife and children, what do you do?" comes to mind.  Is that moment a time for turning the other cheek?

I would say, no.  That is a moment for summoning up the neanderthal force and protecting what is under your care. (I do not mean to be patronizing by that, I can find no other words at the moment is all.)  It seems to me from my reading of the prophets, that those of us with power have the duty to protect those of us who have no power.  It is called justice.  Usually those means are non-violent, but occasionally the situation calls for the use of violence.  A caveat, though, even just violence is not without its consequences. 

There, discuss . . .

E-B
   9 comments

Brian Hamilton
June 8, 2004   11:51 PM PDT
 
(1) Few people suggest "standing idly by"--at least no more than Jesus did.

(2) Can you cite NT instances of the call for the powerful to violently those without power?
Mark
May 19, 2004   11:39 PM PDT
 
One thought - doesn't the Bible allow a government to bear arms (go to war) - however as individuals we do not have that right - but rely on the authorities for such?

Still - I would protect my family with everything at my disposal. But I have no individual right to avenge their suffering - that is something that has been given to the authorities.

Just a thought ....
Swan
May 15, 2004   10:52 PM PDT
 
I think you should ask yourself what you would do if someone breaks into your home and threatens to ... YOU.
Don't presume your wife and children would want you to use violence.

And since you are thinking about the issue already, before any such situation comes up, why not discuss with them what they would expect etc.?
Editor-Bishop
May 14, 2004   09:27 AM PDT
 
Pen,

I'm all well and fine, at least theorhetically so far, with suffering injustice myself. My problem is that as a white male of relatively decent economic status I have some level of power. It is not anything I have chosen to have, neither have I sought it out. It is intrinsic to my identity. It is not something that I see that can be simply 'laid down.' I choose not to exercise the perogatives of that identity, but when push comes to shove I have more power than most in this world to prevent injustice, and if I understand the prophets I have the duty as someone with power to prevent, slow, reduce injustice in the world. At what point does my duty to do that stop, when I must use my power in a violent way to prevent the oppression of others? Where is the line?
Pen
May 13, 2004   04:05 PM PDT
 
EB - you say that violence should only be a last resort -- when push comes to shove. Wouldn't one of those times have been when it was clear that Jesus was going to be crucified -- a legion of angels could have changed salvation history.

I know this is cheeky -- but -- if non-violence was good enough for Jesus - its good enough for me.

Why is it that this is such a challenging topic for the church these days?
Editor-Bishop
May 13, 2004   01:57 PM PDT
 
I am talking not specifically about Iraq, but about the general. The responsibility of the 'powerful' to protect the rights of those without power.

Also, I am not advocating only the use of violence to prevent injustice, but as one of many means to promote justice in the world. It is a last resort, but sometimes push does come down to shove. I think the only time I can justify the use of violence though is in protecting the marginalized from others who posess the power to abuse them.

E-B
Pen
May 13, 2004   06:57 AM PDT
 
EB - good start.

It is important to remember that prior to Constantine the church was pacifist - even restricting believers from serving in the military. Post Constantine/Augustine the beginnigns of Just War Doctrine came into being. The early church saw any war (just or not) as a last resort and an utter failure. So regardless of whether we choose to be 'powerful' and protect the weak -- if we take life - the church still frowns on it.

I'd suggest you read John Howard Yoder's essay on the same question that you raise. Hugo has some excerpts of it (http://hugoboy.blogspot.com/2003_10_01_hugoboy_archive.html#106727296691730941). I have some discussion of it to at my place (http://www.gutlesspacifist.com/archives/00000518.htm)

Just some thoughts.
gball
May 12, 2004   10:01 AM PDT
 
Good topic for discussion, Harry ole boy. However, there should be some additional clarification. When you talk about those of us with power protecting the weaker, are you referring specifically to Iraq? Or do you mean homeless people, orphans, etc.?

Also, does the Bible refer to nation-states, or individuals? There is a whole discussion on its own...because there is evidence of God using nation states and political entities to bring about his will.

This should be a fun post.

By the way, I think Rumsfeld's little speech about a dad and a kid a bike was dumb. I wouldn't have laughed.
Helen
May 12, 2004   09:46 AM PDT
 
I like what you're saying... I think you're probably right in saying that we are to defend ourselves, our families, and what its rightfully ours against any wrong-doing. You hit the nail on the head, too, when you said that you still have to be prepared to pay the consequences for violence no matter what the reason.

I don't think that God wants us to stand idley by and let someone harm us or our families when we can do something to prevent it.

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